Brother Apostate

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Posts by Brother Apostate

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  155

  Share your favorite silly/stoopid joke...

  by Priest73 in

  1. social
  2. humour

  hey,.

  did you guys hear what happened to the pope when he went to mount olive?.

  popeye beat the snot out of him.

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  Brother Apostate

  Q: How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?

  A: Fifty. (One to change the bulb, and 49 to form a support group).

  BA- Lols
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  58

  Why do bible thumpers have to immagine a God who test.

  by jaguarbass in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i get this daily email from a bible thumping friend of mine this was part of todays topic.. sometimes we wonder, "why do we have to go through these trials & breakings, lord?

  " well, there are some things the lord can't reveal to you in advance because you're not yet ready.

  he's got to let you go through some testings without your even knowing what the future holds, to see if you can take it, to see how loyal you are, to see how strong you are, to see how faithful you are, to see if you will be willing to do whatever he asks!

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  Brother Apostate

  Cog, for the record,

  Only that your claim that God did not mean "I test" when he said "I test" but he meant something else such as "allowed" is a very old and very often repeated argument.

  I didn't state that. I acknowledged earlier in this thread that God (rarely) tests some of us (His faithful). Most tests we face come from Satan or our own desires originating from our fallen state.

  As for overcoming testing and trial making us stronger, we'll apparently have to agree to disagree, as my experience and obsevation has taught me otherwise.

  BA
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  42

  Is all religion in some way abusive?

  by nvrgnbk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wish to thank writetoknow for prompting this question from his thread "hating religion is it bigotry?".

  what has been your personal experience?.

  consider the impressionable mind of the infant.. is it fair to indoctrinate them with dogma?.

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  Brother Apostate

  WTWizard,

  It seems that your post is primarily pointing out the flaws in the JW religion. For the sake of accuracy, and for the benefit of lurkers and newly escaped jws, as a non-denominational Christian (my religion) I'm in absolute agreement with most of your post, with these exceptions:

  It is true that all religion imposes a standard of righteousness and wickedness that has nothing to do with practicality. You see this when they waste the time to meet every week just to bemoan the world and what God is going to do about it.

  In fact, not all religions meet once a week, and when they do meet, it isn't just to "bemoan the world and what God is going to do about it", nor do all religions "imposes a standard of righteousness and wickedness that has nothing to do with practicality". The standards of righteousness and wickedness taught by true Christians is nothing if not practical, ie, mindful of the results, usefulness, advantages or disadvantages, etc., of actions or procedures.

  They also have doctrines that prohibit premarital sex and certain other acts, and use guilt and the threat of hell to keep people in line.

  Again, not true. Not all religions use guilt, some use love. Not all religions use the threat of hell, rather, the reward of obedience is stressed, while the inevitable consequence of disobedience is made known, it isn't what is of primary importance. Also, (nit-picking here) Biblically, there is no such thing as "premarital sex", as once sexual intercourse occurs, marriage has occurred in God's eyes, as the "two have become one flesh". If the couple then seperate and engage in sexual intercourse with another without scriptural grounds, adultery has occured. If one engages regularly in sex with multiple partners, whether at once or serially, this is the practice of fornication.

  Do they expect people to forgo something now for something in an afterworld, when they have absolutely no proof that it's going to do any good?

  We can argue about the meaning of "proof", I'd say I and others who believe as I do have plenty of proof, otherwise we wouldn't believe as we do. I'm sure there are others who feel likewise. "Faith makes us sure of what we hope for and gives us proof of what we cannot see." Hebrews 11:1

  Other than those few things, I think you hit the nail on the head as far as what is wrong and abusive in the JWs, as well as many other religions.

  BA- Purist.
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  42

  Disturbing news regarding Arctic Melting.

  by sweetstuff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know, i know, someone is going to say, there is no proof that global warming is real, or that its man-made.

  yeah, un-huh.

  just like there is no proof that jw's teach lies.

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  Brother Apostate

  Hi BA,
  
  How would you tell the difference between a natural cycle and actual human-caused global warming?
  
  Just curious as to how YOU understand the mechanisms and causes of a natural shift in temperatures (i.e. ice ages and interglacial warm periods) versus one that would be caused by human. There would be a difference, right? To say that it is one or the other you would have to know WHY it isn't caused by the other reason.
  
  I really am interested in how people view these things.
  
  thanks,
  
  -K

  Solar fluctuations, deforestation, and GHGs are the primary sources of GW, along with the potential for "tipping the scales" feedback loop caused by warmer oceans, reduced ice coverage, and warmer amosphere capable of storing more GHGs. I don't believe I've left anything out with that statement. The majority of the causes in the past were of natural origin, all we need do is look at the historically cyclical nature of warming and cooling periods (without today's man-made contributions) to avoid jumping to a conclusion that flies in the face of history.

  Deforestation and agriculture, as well as industrialization (AGW), have definitely contributed to global warming, that is undeniable. However, comparing this GW period to other GW periods, no convincing evidence to date for AGW being a major source of this period of GW has stood the test of time and scrutiny.

  This is my understanding, has been since I researched it in-depth, and I have yet to find convincing evidence or arguments to the contrary. If you know of findings to the contrary, I'm all ears.

  Regardless, if the powers that be wish to take steps to reduce hydrocarbon emissions without contributing to economic collapse, a needless increase in poverty, or otherwise return us to the stone age, that is an admirable yet elusive goal.

  It doesn't appear it will do squat to reduce GW, but the environment will be cleaner, perhaps. We have little or no say in it anyway.

  BA- Regardless, a return to the stone age, economic collapse, and/or the apocalypse may be upon us, or perhaps not, time will tell.

  PS- Congratulations on finishing your last paper for the semester ! Woot!
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  21

  Are the Anointed real?

  by yknot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear jwders.

  as i continue to question all that i have ever known, i am now at the subject of the anointed .

  was there ever anyone really anointed after pentecost?

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  Brother Apostate

  I am in agreement with what greendawn stated:

  Biblically there aren't two classes of Christians as the JWs claim but there is only one faith, one Lord and one body or Church. All Christians should be part of the New Covenant and adopted by God through the Holy Spirit so as to be sons and inheritors rather than servants as were the Jews under the Mosaic Covenant. Otherwise there is no salvation possible.
  
  The JW separation of Christians into two classes one superior to the other is a crude, way out cultic deception based on the gross misinterpretation of a couple of verses, the other sheep who are in fact the gentile Christians as opposed to the Jewish ones and the Great Crowd who are in fact another way of presenting the members of the one and only Christian church and not some supposedly inferior christians.

  I can only add, in reply to tula's post:

  So what is this...NO GIRLS ALLOWED? Most western religions are patriarchal. This religion is truly misogynistic.Does anyone know ...were there different "requirements" of proof for male or female?Were any of annointed reproved or maybe picked on because of skeptics? Or did their drinking at memorial act as insulation to make others back off and leave them alone because they were "more special"?How do you think an "annointed" knows that he is annointed? Just curious.

  that being anointed means being annointed by Holy Spirit.

  All those, male or female, who put faith in God, pray in faith for His Holy Spirit and strive to obey His instruction are annointed by His Holy Spirit. And all those who are are to partake of the bread and the wine as symbols of Christ's flesh and blood, in recognition of it's redeeming power and acceptance of the New Covenant.

  BA
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  208

  Self Deceit and Faith.

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this thread is inspired by a comment made on another thread, but i thought it would make an interesting discussion.. self deceit is described as a "misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it".

  my premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself.. so, i would ask of the "faithful" the following questions and would request that they be read carefully to ensure no that there is no misunderstanding of purpose.. 1) in what way is faith not self-deception?.

  2) is a person who has faith in a god that you do not believe in, say for example siva, practicing a form of self-deception?.

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  Brother Apostate

  Streuth but you are thick-headed! Your posts man. All the religious ones. The ones where you mimic exactly the WTS thinking on the subjects that you discuss, including what animals went on the Ark. The creation of "kinds". You were even stupid enough to state recently that you did not believe that a "sparrow could become an eagle".....lol showing a complete ignorance of the subject at hand. You even posted a link recently evidencing the fulfillment of "prophecies" from the Bible, trying to show that it is a "supernatural" book and half of it was a mirror on WTS end-times reasoning. Please feel free to "write up" exactly what your view of the "creation" in Genesis is and side by side note where your views differ from the WTS in this regard. Those of us who have been dumb enough to have spent valuable and irreplacable time reading your posts already know the answer. I think the only one who does not know is your good-self.

  All I can say in reply is:

  However often you repeat an error it does not become corrected by repetition. When you finally learn this your knowledge base will increase exponentially. Just for the record you are incorrect about this...again.

  BA- Chill out and take your own medicine, for pete's sake!
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  58

  Why do bible thumpers have to immagine a God who test.

  by jaguarbass in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i get this daily email from a bible thumping friend of mine this was part of todays topic.. sometimes we wonder, "why do we have to go through these trials & breakings, lord?

  " well, there are some things the lord can't reveal to you in advance because you're not yet ready.

  he's got to let you go through some testings without your even knowing what the future holds, to see if you can take it, to see how loyal you are, to see how strong you are, to see how faithful you are, to see if you will be willing to do whatever he asks!

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  Brother Apostate

  I can assure you that my statements are of my own origin. Any similarity to others thoughts is purely coincidental. -BA

  Well, if the western world had not been exposed for thousands of years to this teaching which originated in the Bible, and has been regurgitated by every major Christian denomination in one form or another, or you had been locked in a room your whole life with no exposure to the outside world and cared for only by atheists I might believe it was your own original idea and purely coincidental. LOL - Cog

  By "my own origin" I mean just that. I needn't plagarize another's work, something you seem to have insinuated. Rather, off the top of my head I answered of my own origin. Of course, we all believe what we believe based on what we have learned and experieced, by which we construct an individual belief system. Much as what you have written can be compared to what others have written and coincidentally found very similar if not identical.

  As for your child-parent analogy, yes it is useful. Parents as well as teachers test children to see what they have learned. Have they learned correctly, and will they obey? Only testing proves one way or another whether they have or have not. Tests start out simple, and increase in complexity and difficulty as we grow and learn. So, too, God tests (some of) us and allows all of us to be tested as we grow and learn. -BA

  Yes, and as I stated earlier, if parents or teachers used or allowed the same kinds of atrocities as tests on children that Christians attribute God as using or allowing, they would be put in jail and labelled psychopathic monsters. Are we created in God's image or not. Is psychological and physical torture a crime for humans but justice when perpertrated by God. How are we to distinguish the difference. Does it matter to us whether we are burned forever in hell by God or burned forever in hell by Satan. When we are burning, do we care WHO is sticking us with the pitchfork? The experience is perceived the same by the one being tortured regardless. -Cog

  The difference is that God has the power to resurrect, and most tests do not come from Him, but from Satan and/or our fallen human state. God does not, and has not, psychologically and physically torture anyone. As for hell, I am one Christian among many who does not belive hell is literally a burniing fire, rather, the fire of hell is symbolic of destruction.

  Our will to obey Him by overcoming those tests is what proves us faithful and, potentially, righteous.-BA

  You keep saying it over and over but you don't answer the question of how it makes us stronger? Demonstrate how being afflicted with suffering makes one stronger. I know from my study of biology that repeated traumas actually weaken the body, and the nervous system of human beings. This has been demonstrated by numerous empirical studies. -Cog

  I have experienced becoming stronger. If one exercises (repeated traumas to) their body, it becomes stronger. If one exercises their reasoning ability, it becomes stronger. If one is tested and overcomes, they become stronger. I'm surprised you question such a truism. Although I'm not a big believer in Nietsche, his statement that "that which does not kill us makes us stronger", is generally felt to be true by many, if not most. My experience in life has taught me it is true. If you disagree, so be it.

  BA
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  42

  Is all religion in some way abusive?

  by nvrgnbk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wish to thank writetoknow for prompting this question from his thread "hating religion is it bigotry?".

  what has been your personal experience?.

  consider the impressionable mind of the infant.. is it fair to indoctrinate them with dogma?.

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  Brother Apostate

  Where does one find a religion that has replaced blind faith with rational knowledge?

  Good question.

  That religion would be true Christianity.

  True Christianity is not a group organized by any human, but by God.

  It has no church other than its members, known to God by their faith and to humans by the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

  Its faith is not blind, but proven by learning, experience, obsevation, reason, knowledge, wisdom, etc.

  True Christian faith begins like a mustard grain, and grows as that faith is exercised by overcoming tests and taking in more knowledge.

  "Keep on asking and it will be given you; keep on seeking and you will find; keep on knocking [reverently] and [the door] will be opened to you.For everyone who keeps on asking receives; and he who keeps on seeking finds; and to him who keeps on knocking, [the door] will be opened." -Matthew 7:7-8

  BA
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  58

  Why do bible thumpers have to immagine a God who test.

  by jaguarbass in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i get this daily email from a bible thumping friend of mine this was part of todays topic.. sometimes we wonder, "why do we have to go through these trials & breakings, lord?

  " well, there are some things the lord can't reveal to you in advance because you're not yet ready.

  he's got to let you go through some testings without your even knowing what the future holds, to see if you can take it, to see how loyal you are, to see how strong you are, to see how faithful you are, to see if you will be willing to do whatever he asks!

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  Brother Apostate

  Then why do so many people, many of them believers in God, often grow in depression and despair when they are tested? Some even reach the point of suicide. How did their test make their belief/'faith in their abilities to withstand future tests greater and greater. In fact their suicide would tend to prove the opposite. I thought God would not allow them to be tested beyond what they could bear? What about being tested undo death? If the purpose of testing is to make one stronger or one's faith stronger, doesn't allowing the testee to be killed defeat the purpose of the test?

  Cog

  Good questions.

  None of us, including moi, has all the answers.

  Here's my thoughts- Perhaps because they have a chemical imbalance or other physiological source of their depression. Just as cancer and other maladies may take our lives prematurely, due to our fallen state, so mental diseases may cause the same to occur.

  Being tested to death, as in martyrdom, is, for those doing so, a privelege with a magnificent and unique reward, the first resurrection, a guarantee that they will never face the second death(Revelation 20:5-6). As for those who do not pass that test, I believe God, being righteous, loving, kind and just and merciful will judge them appropriately.

  BA
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  58

  Why do bible thumpers have to immagine a God who test.

  by jaguarbass in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i get this daily email from a bible thumping friend of mine this was part of todays topic.. sometimes we wonder, "why do we have to go through these trials & breakings, lord?

  " well, there are some things the lord can't reveal to you in advance because you're not yet ready.

  he's got to let you go through some testings without your even knowing what the future holds, to see if you can take it, to see how loyal you are, to see how strong you are, to see how faithful you are, to see if you will be willing to do whatever he asks!

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  Brother Apostate

  If God tests persons to determine who will obey Him and put Faith in Him, why is that dificult to understand?- BA

  It's not difficult to understand if God is cruel and unjust. It is impossible to reconcile with a God of loving kindness, mercy, and justice -Cog.

  I find no difficulty at all in reconciling His allowing us to be tested with the fact that He is a God of loving kindness, mercy, and justice. Quite to the contrary, I find it makes sense that He would allow us to be tested to prove we will obey and put faith in Him. BA